Note from Ville Hietanen (Jerome) of Currently, I (but not my brother of the “prophecyfilm12” mail) have updated many of my old believes to be more in line with Vatican II and I no longer adhere to the position that Vatican II or the Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists or various Traditionalists Groups and Peoples etc. or the various teachings, Saints and adherents to Vatican II (and other canonized by Vatican II) such as Saint Mother Theresa or Saint Pope John Paul II etc. was heretical or damned or not Catholic (or not the Pope) – or that they are unworthy of this title.

I also ask the forgiveness of Presidents Barack Obama and the Bush family and all other people in power or worldly influence who has been slandered by us, and also of Popes John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis I and everyone else, whether Buddhist or Protestant, who has been slandered in our crazy conspiracy theories that judges many in power or religion as being evil or as being part of some evil conspiracy out to enslave mankind through evil means, since this was obviously wrong (as I also understood when I saw videos of their good example and kindness to other human beings, such as just recently with Barack Obama here) and since I have come to understand better that we must not judge others! (Yet, before this and when I was more of a judger, I had no scruple to give other people watching our material the impression that people in power were perhaps evil or part of some evil conspiracy for the only "crime" of making a handsign! And I am really sorry for this and for all the bad examples we have made!)

Why have I changed position? That is simply because the law of conscience is true, and because damnation is something evil, and because the Vatican II Catholic Church and the World (secular people, Freemasons, the Illuminati, Albert Pike etc. who all of them also have been judged evilly by me, and I am sorry for this) are more open to the Law of Conscience and Universal Salvation, whereas the pre-Vatican II Church was not!

In fact, as the crazy conspiracy theories goes, Vatican II was even created in part because of the actions and deeds of the Freemasons etc.!, and so they did a good thing for changing the world to become better with their good thoughts of desiring and wishing Universal Peace, Love, Brotherhood and Understanding amongst all peoples and all countries – instead of there being separation, hate or unworthy feelings for others that repressing and evil teachings such as “that only Catholics or Christians can be saved”, creates in people! And to prove the point to you, I will ask you this: How often have you yourself perhaps personally, as a Christian (or other religious), judged your fellow human brothers and sisters as not being saved or that they will be damned, or even, as not being worthy of being saved, only because he or she was a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Catholic, a Protestant or even a Sinner, such as a Gay or Homosexual? (Forgive me, I too have judged and condemned you before, but not anymore and from now on I will judge you based on the moral life you lead and if you actually love and do good to your loved ones, neighbours and strangers since it is in this where true love and goodness is shown in people, and not in whether they are Catholics, or Muslims, or even Gay since homosexual people also can truly love others and be completely unselfish, even if they are not accepted by every Christian or religious person for their lifestyle, sadly; and instead of being given love, understanding and acceptance for who they are, they are given hate, rejection and even nonacceptance even if they hate no one and are good persons spreading love, and this behavior will of course only breed more hate, contention and ill feelings not only in us if we keep fighting with them, but also in our beloved homosexual brothers and sisters that are human beings with feelings too that needs to be respected!)

Now, as we can see, if one actually believes in this logic or follows this faith and reasoning in life of condemning and judging others based on mere faith instead of actual evil acts, then one is not actually believing in Universal Brotherhood and Sisterhood amongst our respective halves (our fellow human beings that does not yet share the same faith, beliefs or lifestyles as we do), but one is rather believing in and following repression and seclusion and of providing an ultimate good (such as eternal salvation) only for one's own – and that is clearly wrong! And that is why I admire all the good now that every human being does for our fellow human brothers and sisters, whoever they are or whatever groups they are, such as the Vatican II, the World, the Catholics and Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Jews, believers and unbelievers alike, even Antichrists and every other Religious peoples and groups and even Gays and the Freemasons, for all the good they do and believe in, who follow their conscience by loving everyone and unifying everyone into one similar and likeworthy family, so that we all may be friends and love each other and see each other in the next life instead of being separated, as sadly was formerly taught and believed in by the majority if people both in and outside the Church!

For more information on this topic and why I have changed position, and why damnation is evil and why the Vatican II Church teaches something good with being more open to universal salvation and the law of conscience, see these posts (please see both of them, they are very important):

Simply said, salvation for everyone is something infinitely desirable and endlessly good, whereas eternal damnation in torments and fire is the most evil thing that could ever be imagined, and it is stupid to believe (and just silently accept) that our fellow human beings must be damned simply because they held a different faith, or simply because God wills it, or only because they failed in their life. That is why I admire Vatican II now, since they have distanced themselves from repressing and evil teachings like an eternal Hell with torments and fire for our beloved fellow human brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children and neighbours etc! and now, instead of focusing on unforgiveness and damnation, the Catholic Church (which is the Church of God) focuses on love, unity, forgiveness, hope and salvation for everyone – which is an eternal true and endlessly good doctrine, since it follows true justice and our conscience which wills eternal good towards everyone and not only towards ones own (even ones enemies, that they may become good so that we may be able to love each other and become best friends).

See: Why I no Longer Reject Vatican II and the Traditional Catholic Priests or Receiving Sacraments from Them (On Baptism of Desire, Baptism of Blood, Natural Family Planning, Una Cum etc.)

Q&A: Damnation and Eternal Torments for Our Children and Beloved Ones is "True" and "Good" but Salvation for Everyone is "Evil" and a "Heresy"?

The False Apparitionsat Bayside, New York

Originally published by Brother Peter Dimond and Brother Michael Dimond of, slightly edited by

(This section exposes the lengths to which the Devil has been allowed to go to deceive people about the Vatican II apostasy, the Vatican II antipopes and the New Mass)

A sign at Bayside - but, as we will see, not a sign from Heaven

We’re often contacted by those who follow the alleged apparitions of Our Lady and Our Lord that have occurred in various parts of the world over the past few decades. Among these, the apparitions at Bayside, New York are prominent. Veronica Lueken allegedly received messages from Our Lord and Our Lady starting in the 1970’s and lasting into the 1990’s. Veronica’s messages were known as the Message of Bayside. These messages were – and still are – extremely influential in how many view the post-conciliar crisis.

Veronica Lueken in "ecstasy" at Bayside, NY - As we will see, she was seeing something, but not Lady or Our Lord.

The messages allegedly received by Veronica were accompanied by prodigies and signs that were witnessed by many at the Bayside apparition site. At the top of this section is a picture from the grounds at Bayside, in which there appears to be a miraculous sign of grace in the area of Veronica Lueken’s head. Apparently, there are thousands of such pictures from the grounds at Bayside. These indeed appear to be “signs”; but, as we will see, these signs are not from


Speaking of the last days, Our Lord warns the world that there will be false signs and wonders to deceive (if it were possible) even the elect.

Matthew 24:24-25: "Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, before hand. If therefore they shall say to you: Behold He is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold He is in the closets, believe it not."

In this warning, Our Lord makes the very specific statement that if people say they see Him here or there in those days, do not believe it. He even uses the very interesting phrase, “in the closet.” In other words, if they say Our Lord is appearing to them in their closets or in their rooms, do not believe it. This admonition would obviously apply also to those who say that His Mother is here or there in those days. St. Paul warns us of the same thing in 2 Thessalonians, when speaking about the time of the Great Apostasy and the coming of Antichrist:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12: "Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying. That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity."

Prophecy of Marie Julie Jahenny, Briton Stigmatist (1891): "During the time of the approach of the punishments announced at La Salette, an unlimited amount of false revelations will arise from Hell like a swarm of flies; a last attempt of Satan to choke and destroy the belief in the true revelations by false ones."1

Faced with this situation, the way that a Catholic judges everything is by the teaching of the Catholic Church. If an apparition apparently from Heaven gives a message that contains one clear heresy, or anything contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church, that is sufficient to prove that it cannot be from God, but that it is from the Devil. God does not contradict Himself.

Galatians 1:8-9- “But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If anyone preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.”

What follows are some of the heresies and clearly false messages in Bayside. These serve to prove that the apparitions of Bayside were not authentic messages from Our Lady or Our Lord. We will cover just a few of the false messages in Bayside. There are many others which we will not include in order to avoid making this section too long. These facts are sufficient to prove that Our Lord and Our Lady did not appear or speak to Veronica Lueken. It was actually the Devil posing as Our Lady and Our Lord who gave Veronica Lueken false messages in order to lead people astray.


“ Our Lady” of Bayside, August 14, 1979: “Do not judge your brothers and sisters who have not been converted. For My Father’s House, My Son has repeated over and over, remember always – that in My Father’s House, there are many rooms in the Mansion, signifying faiths and creeds.”2

The statement above allegedly from “Our Lady of Bayside,” that in the Father’s House there are many mansions representing many faiths and creeds, is blatantly heretical. It is an infallibly defined dogma that only those who die with the Catholic Faith go to Heaven, as we’ve covered throughout this book.

Pope Eugene IV, The Athanasian Creed, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”3

This heresy in Bayside gives it away as a false apparition of the Devil, for Our Lady does not contradict infallible dogma and the Chair of St. Peter. To say otherwise is blasphemous heresy.

Pope Leo XII, Ubi Primum (# 14), May 5, 1824: It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and the Rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their membersby divine faith we hold one Lord, one faith, one baptismThis is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church.”4

The Bayside Message contradicts what Catholics must hold by divine faith, that there is only one faith that leads to Heaven, the Catholic Faith, outside of which there is no salvation. The many mansions in the Father’s house that Our Lord refers to in the Gospel represent different rewards for Catholics who die in the state of grace.


“Our Lady” of Bayside, June 18, 1988: “Within two years or less, there will be a great crash of the market. The whole world’s monetary systems will be paralyzed. That, My child, is why you had to come this evening to the grounds.”5

This never happened.


“Our Lady” of Bayside, June 18, 1988: “Do not be affrighted, My child; you must see this, for it is important. Within this century this Ball will be sent upon mankind… It is almost too late… a Ball that is fast hurtling towards earth! It will be here within this century, if not sooner.”6

A common characteristic of many of the recent false apparitions is the claim that a ball of redemption will come to crush the Earth or much of it. Personally, we believe that the Devil’s purpose in promoting this idea is to get people to focus on a physical chastisement, rather than on the spiritual deception occurring with the Vatican II sect. Bayside clearly prophesied that this comet/ball of redemption would arrive “within” the 20th century. This never happened, thus proving that the Message of Bayside is false. Further, look at the wording of the message allegedly from “Our Lady.” She supposedly says that this ball would arrive “within this century, if not sooner,” AS IF SHE DOESN’T KNOW. It is not the statement of Our Lady, but the lie of the Devil.

When Our Lady communicates, she usually says very little. She expresses herself precisely, and she certainly doesn’t make false prophecies. She is the Queen of Prophets.


“ Our Lord” of Bayside, August 21, 1985: “My children – three figures with great power, who are planning the fate of your Vicar [John Paul II]. You must warn him to be clear of those about him. When he reads their writings he will understand. However, We also ask that he spend less time in going to and fro across the nations, for he makes it doubly difficult for Us to protect him. Pray a constant vigilance of prayer. You have a good and holy Father now in Rome, but should he be removed there will come disaster.”7

According to this, Our Lord said it’s doubly hard for Him to protect someone who travels. This is clearly false.

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council I, Sess. 3, Chap. 1, On God the creator of all things: “EVERYTHING THAT GOD HAS BROUGHT INTO BEING HE PROTECTS AND GOVERNS BY HIS PROVIDENCE, which reaches from one end of the earth to the other and orders all things well. All things are open and laid bare before His eyes, even those which will be brought about by the free activity of creatures.”8

God’s providence and power extend from one end of the earth to the other. It’s not hard for Him to do anything. The statement of Bayside not only contradicts Vatican I, but also the Gospel. Our Lord tells His Apostles that He could instantly have more than 12 legions of angels (Mt. 26:53) from His Father, if He asked for them. But Bayside would have us believe that it makes it difficult for God if you travel! This is just one example of many which proves that there is outrageous heresy and error in the Bayside Message.

While God allows the Devil to work false signs at these apparition sites, at the same time He allows (or even forces) the Devil to make major mistakes, so that those who really want the truth can see that the message is a deception of the Devil.

The above message also tells us that John Paul II was “good.” This is arguably the worst part of the Bayside Message. John Paul II praised all the different false religions and taught that we shouldn’t convert non-Catholics, as we’ve documented in this book. John Paul II was an evil, Christ-rejecting heretic. Through Veronica Lueken, the Devil wanted to convince people that a man who preached a new Gospel, promoted idolatry and religious indifferentism, was actually “good.”

John Paul II at Assisi, 1986, at an ecumenical gathering, which Pope Pius XI condemned as apostasy in Mortalium Animos


“Our Lady” of Bayside, June 18, 1988: “Please, my children, pray for your Holy Father, the pope. You must not lose him, for the one who comes after him will destroy if he can – he will attempt to destroy Pope John Paul II.”9

This is another false prophecy. The one after John Paul II, who is Benedict XVI, doesn’t try to destroy him, but wants to “canonize” him! Further, the prophecy is inherently contradictory, for how could the one after John Paul II attempt to destroy him when John Paul II will already be dead?


“Our Lady” of Bayside, Aug. 14, 1981, STAY IN YOUR PARISH: “My heart, My Son’s heart has been grieved, as we go about the world… We can see a division bordering on schism… it is promoted by Satan… Do not judge My Son’s House, His Church, by the man, though he is representative – legal, a legal representative of My Son… at the time that My Son comes in the Consecration, He shall not turn aside from you, My Son. Therefore, you cannot say that the Mass is invalid. This has brought great sorrow to Our Hearts, for many left the fold on this matter.”10

“ Our Lady” of Bayside, May 3, 1978, Stay in your parish: “You will all remain in your Parish churches.11

Notice the insistence with which the Message tells people to remain at the New Mass!

“ Our Lady” of Bayside, Aug. 14, 1981, Stay in your parish: “I have asked you in the past, and I ask and continue to beg you, my children, not to abandon your Vicar in Rome, and not to abandon your parish church.”12

“ Our Lord” of Bayside, Sept. 14, 1986, Traditionalists are being led astray: “We hear all names coming forward to Our ears of churches being born anew, called the Traditional Roman Catholic Church. My child and My children, We need no more Traditionalists running around and creating new churches.”13

The Devil wants people to stay with the counterfeit Church of the Vatican II sect. He wants people to stay with the invalid New Mass. This is the whole purpose of the Bayside Messages, and many similar false messages. The Devil wants to keep conservative-minded “Catholics” inside the Vatican II parishes, in communion with the new Vatican II religion, and under the manifestly heretical and non-Catholic Vatican II antipopes. In order to accomplish this, the Devil uses false seers such as Veronica Lueken. And in order to be ultra-effective, in the false messages which he gives them he includes conservative statements. These conservative statements – such as encouraging the people to pray the Rosary, wear the scapular, denounce modernism, reject liturgical abuses, etc. – are meant to deceive. All of these things were part of the Bayside messages. Since people receive not the love of the truth (2 Thess. 2), God allows them to be deceived by the false signs that have occurred at these apparition sites.

Sadly, the Devil’s plan has been incredibly effective. We’ve been in contact with many who continue to attend the New Mass – while deploring its abuses, of course, as the Bayside Message instructs them – simply because they believe in Bayside. They won’t hear the Magisterial arguments (arguments from the traditional teaching authority of the Church) which show that the New Mass is no Mass; rather, they just stick with Bayside. They dismiss all the proof that Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI weren’t/aren’t even Catholic; they just stick with Bayside. We know entire families who have been raised in the Conciliar religion – for instance, attending both the indult Mass and the New Mass, rather than strictly the Traditional Mass at an independent chapel – simply because they follow Bayside.

Unfortunately, if they remain on their present path it will cost them their salvation, since they have chosen to follow strange voices rather than the truth communicated through the teaching of the Catholic Church. At their judgments, Our Lord will repeat to them what He warned all of us in the Gospel:

Matthew 24:24-25: "Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, before hand. If therefore they shall say to you: Behold He is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold He is in the closets, believe it not."

Below is just one of countless examples that could be given of a “conservative” message that the Devil spiced in among the Bayside messages. The Devil tells them to remain at the Vatican II parish and under the antipope, while also…

“Our Lady” of Bayside, Aug. 14, 1974 – Vatican II: “Satan was present – He listened with careful ears at the Great Council [Vatican II]. He awaited every move, and he placed his agents among you! Recognize and reconstruct your path! You have been deluded.”14

This tickles the ears of those who know that Vatican II caused the spiritual crisis. So the Devil tells them that there were problems with Vatican II, while keeping them in the very sect that Vatican II created. It’s brilliant. Veronica also said that it was revealed to her that if the Latin Mass were returned the coming chastisement would be averted. Hence, the people are told that the Latin Mass is preferable, but the New Mass is also valid and should not be abandoned.


“Our Lady” of Bayside, July 25, 1985: “…By the time We had reached you in Bayside, in your home, My Child, We had looked with Theresa a long time for a Veronica… the highest of Heaven approach many souls to be messengers, voice-boxes, for the Eternal Father, through My Son…”15

Veronica Lueken was chosen and used as a voice-box for the Devil. Her false messages, which contradict Catholic teaching, have had disastrous effects on innumerable souls. For the most part, what is said in this article also applies to the many other false apparitions of the past few decades. It applies to the false apparitions at Medjugorje, which contain clear heresy; it applies to the false apparitions/locutions to Don Gobbi, John Leary, etc., etc., etc. Some of these other apparitions are slightly more conservative, while some of them are slightly more liberal. The Devil has various flavors to appeal to different kinds of people, but they all deliver a false message on the post-Vatican II apostasy. Almost all of them say similar things about John Paul II.

In conclusion, these facts should show us the lengths to which Satan has gone (with God’s permission) to deceive people and keep them with the New Mass and the Vatican II antipopes, etc. This should be a wake up call to us all about the gravity of the spiritual deception we are dealing with now.

Endnotes for Section 36:

1 Rev. R. Gerald Culleton, The Reign of Antichrist, Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1974, p. 177.

2 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, published by Apostles of Our Lady, Inc. Lansing, MI, 1993, p. 81.

3 Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Sheed & Ward and Georgetown University Press, 1990, Vol. 1, pp. 550-553; Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, B. Herder Book. Co., Thirtieth Edition, 1957, 39-40.

4 The Papal Encyclicals, Vol. 1 (1740-1878), p. 201.

5 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 108.

6 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 108.

7 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 103.

8 Denzinger 1784.

9 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 108.

10 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 83.

11 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 83.

12 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 83.

13 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 104.

14 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 87.

15 Our Lady of the Roses (Blue Book), the “messages” of Bayside, p. 102.
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